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Contest Stats and Discussion - Part 281

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HaRRicH | Posted 5/4/2006 2:01:20 PM | message detail
Ya know, talking about pics and Ganon/Bowser, would anybody who believes in the pic-factor believe in this theory? It's as follows:

In the Villain Contest, Sephiroth/Ganon had two pictures for their match...and one of them barely had Sephiroth visible in it thanks to a Ganon Punch. Meanwhile, the picture of Bowser/Sephiroth was practically a picture of Sephiroth's most famous scene with Giga Bowser thrown into it. Would anybody think this could have changed the results enough to deceive many of us to thinkin' Ganon > Bowser?
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HaRRicH | Posted 5/4/2006 2:03:14 PM | message detail
If Samus couldn't SFF Ganon much/any, how could Kirby rSFF Ganon enough for the win?
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Lopen | Posted 5/4/2006 2:17:06 PM | message detail
Because he rSFFed Bowser enough to get that close. Unless you don't think he rSFFed Bowser. Then he's in striking range of Ganon anyway and wouldn't need much rSFF to take it.

And Mario and Link would imply that Ganondorf is the more SFF prone of the two.

My case for Samus not being able to SFF Ganondorf much/at all is that Samus sucks in SFF situations as well. I mean Mario did hit her with ~15% turnaround going off what the stats said. She got hit pretty hard. It is freaking Mario, but do I think Kirby would get SFFed that hard? Nah, I really don't.

As an aside: Based off what I've seen them both do I think Bowser > Ganondorf. Directly and indirectly. Regardless of what the X-Stats or matches held two days apart say about that. So if that's the case Kirby takes Ganondorf unless Ganondorf does the rSFFing. But I'm not really trying to argue that.
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HaRRicH | Posted 5/4/2006 2:26:32 PM | message detail
He was already supposed to do better than Yoshi did against Bowser (43.66%), due to him not being in the Mario series and being stronger than Yoshi according to 2k3/2k4 stats...and, simply as a personal guess, I would assume Kirby is more-liked in the SSB/M series than Yoshi is. Also, don't forget to give some credit to Kirby: Canvas Curse for releasing before the contest, too. Kirby didn't manage all that much rSFF (assuming it even exists)...but let's say he did. I think what you're assuming is that Kirby keeps his stats from 2k5 and can add rSFF from there against Ganon, and it doesn't work like that -- you have to figure out where Kirby was before rSFF in 2k5, then go from there.
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Lopen | Posted 5/4/2006 2:27:13 PM | message detail
http://www.gamefaqs.com/poll/index.html?poll=1361

Hmmm. Perhaps she doesn't suck in them after all. (Countering your own argument rules!)
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Lopen | Posted 5/4/2006 2:32:03 PM | message detail
I think what you're assuming is that Kirby keeps his stats from 2k5 and can add rSFF from there against Ganon

What's wrong with that? My argument is that Ganon seems more likely to be SFFed harder than Bowser. (Which apparently is almost as much gut as grounds right now)

If Kirby was legitimately that strong, then he rSFFs Ganondorf a little bit and threatens for the win.

If Kirby rSFFed Bowser and he'd rSFF Ganondorf a bit more, then he effectively keeps his SFF value vs Bowser and adds a bit more to it due to a bit more SFF.
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therealmnm | Posted 5/4/2006 2:41:40 PM | message detail
In the Villain Contest, Sephiroth/Ganon had two pictures for their match...and one of them barely had Sephiroth visible in it thanks to a Ganon Punch. Meanwhile, the picture of Bowser/Sephiroth was practically a picture of Sephiroth's most famous scene with Giga Bowser thrown into it. Would anybody think this could have changed the results enough to deceive many of us to thinkin' Ganon > Bowser?

I've thought about that, but not to that extent. There really wasn't that much of a difference between Bowser and Ganon's matches against Sephiroth. We're talking 1.38% and 3000-4000 more votes in a match that drew 6000 more votes than Bowser's match. Plus it was a finals match. For all we know, it could have been a last gasp coordinated effort to try to take down Sephiroth. For all we know, Bowser could have performed better had he been the last one to face Sephiroth. It could have been the pictures. Or it could just be random variation. My point is that the difference between them isn't really that much in the first place.

You can come up with other reasoning, such as the Zelda series being more popular than the Mario series, or Bowser being a more known and much more exposed villain, but I definitely wouldn't make conclusions based off of the SpC2k5 matches. It's one thing when a person clearly outperforms the next against a common opponent. 1.38% doesn't fall in that category for me.

As for Kirby, I think he's legit. He made Tidus look like Ramza. Clearly he had a major boost. Plus he had some of the best pictures in the contest! Look at Kirby's contest pictures and tell me you don't think "badass"!
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trannyscience | Posted 5/4/2006 2:43:13 PM | message detail
I think "big pink thing" !!
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therealmnm | Posted 5/4/2006 2:56:25 PM | message detail
What are you talking about?

http://www.sc2k5.com/gallery/albums/sc2k5/b39.jpg

Don't you see that wicked left cross Kirby is giving Tidus? Tidus is reeling!
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Lopen | Posted 5/4/2006 2:57:40 PM | message detail
It's true. Kirby couldn't get more badass than he was in 2k5 unless he swallowed Dante.
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therealmnm | Posted 5/5/2006 12:02:24 AM | message detail
Hmmmm.... I wonder what's going to win this poll.
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Tatsumaki Senpuu | Posted 5/5/2006 2:24:42 AM | message detail
Man, I didn't realize how poor the month of May is for games. Good thing E3 starts next week ...

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LeonhartForever | Posted 5/5/2006 8:36:04 AM | message detail
Some "Fact or Fiction" maybe to get some things going again:

Fact or Fiction: The Tournament of Champions will return this year.

Fact or Fiction: The Tournament of Champions should return this year.

Fact or Fiction: Sonic the Hedgehog will finally make the Final Four this year.

Fact or Fiction: Solid Snake will return to the Final Four this year.

Fact or Fiction: Mega Man will make his fourth straight Final Four.

Fact or Fiction: Sonic will be able to challenge Samus after the release of the new Sonic the Hedgehog.
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Sir Auron | Posted 5/5/2006 8:51:24 AM | message detail
Fact or Fiction: The Tournament of Champions will return this year.

I'll go with Fiction here. I figure that was more of a one time thing as opposed to something that will happen annually. Plus, you would pretty much have to include Mario in such a thing and that creates some issues with how that is setup -- someone would get a bye.

Fact or Fiction: The Tournament of Champions should return this year.

Fiction. It was cool for one year, but part of the fun of a match like Link and Cloud is seeing go through everyone else when they get to each other. I think it's fun to see if one of them has done a performance that indicates a turnaround from the usual. Like, you know, Cloud winning ...

Fact or Fiction: Sonic the Hedgehog will finally make the Final Four this year.

Fact. I always hate answering these without seeing the bracket because he could get a bracket placement that almost ensures him a Final Four spot or get one that pretty much guarantees him not getting one, especially if there is no ToC. For now, though, I'll go with fact. I figure he's one of the Noble Nine characters with a lot of reasons to see a steady increase over the next couple of contests.

Fact or Fiction: Solid Snake will return to the Final Four this year.

Fiction. I believe there's a couple of other characters not in the Noble Nine who would end up beating him if Snake ran into them. Seeing as how he's the weakest of the Noble Nine, he also wouldn't really be able to take any of them on and get there. He'd really have to have a nice bracket setup to get there.

Fact or Fiction: Mega Man will make his fourth straight Final Four.

Fact. He always seems to manage to get their someway, somehow. Heh.

Fact or Fiction: Sonic will be able to challenge Samus after the release of the new Sonic the Hedgehog.

Fact. Maybe it's just my anticipation for the game, but if there was ever any Sonic release that could get him up to that level it would be the new Sonic the Hedgehog. It's a multi-console game, too, so he should be able to pull from those PS3 and Xbox 360 owners. Then there's that Sonic game on the Wii. So yeah, I'll say fact.

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SephirothG | Posted 5/5/2006 11:44:12 AM | message detail
Fact: The Tournament of Champions will return this year.

Fact: The Tournament of Champions should return this year.

Fact: Sonic the Hedgehog will finally make the Final Four this year.

Fiction: Solid Snake will return to the Final Four this year.

Fact: Mega Man will make his fourth straight Final Four.

Fiction: Sonic will be able to challenge Samus after the release of the new Sonic the Hedgehog.

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HaRRicH | Posted 5/5/2006 11:52:14 AM | message detail
Fiction: The Tournament of Champions will return this year.

Fact: The Tournament of Champions should return this year.

Fact: Sonic the Hedgehog will finally make the Final Four this year.

Fiction: Solid Snake will return to the Final Four this year.

Fact: Mega Man will make his fourth straight Final Four.

Fiction: Sonic will be able to challenge Samus after the release of the new Sonic the Hedgehog.
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SephirothG | Posted 5/5/2006 11:54:29 AM | message detail
Why wouldn't a ToC return?

(I posted this already but it won't show up!)
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UltimaterializerX | Posted 5/5/2006 11:54:49 AM | message detail
Kirby couldn't get more badass than he was in 2k5 unless he swallowed Dante.

If by badass you mean lame and unnecessarily over the top, yes. Though I haven't played DMC 2 or 3 yet.

Fact or Fiction: The Tournament of Champions will return this year.

Fiction, I guess.

Fact or Fiction: The Tournament of Champions should return this year.

Fact.

Fact or Fiction: Sonic the Hedgehog will finally make the Final Four this year.

Fiction. **** Sonic.

Fact or Fiction: Solid Snake will return to the Final Four this year.

Fiction. nake needs to not face any NN members along the way, and the odds of that are low.

Fact or Fiction: Mega Man will make his fourth straight Final Four.

Fact. He always gets stuck in soft divisions.

Fact or Fiction: Sonic will be able to challenge Samus after the release of the new Sonic the Hedgehog.

Fiction, thankfully. Samus > Sonic.

~*ST*~
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therealmnm | Posted 5/5/2006 12:20:42 PM | message detail
Fiction: The Tournament of Champions will return this year.

As someone said before, since Mario is a champion now, it wouldn't really make sense to have it now, unless he keeps Mario in the main bracket and repeatedly makes it a free-for-all for a chance to face Clinkeroth. Doesn't really make sense though.

Fiction: The Tournament of Champions should return this year.

Fiction. I could care less who wins the bracket overall as long as the bracket is fun. I actually LIKE seeing people face off against Link, Cloud, and Sephiroth. Sephiroth was a lock to win the Spring contest, but it was pretty fun to see Bowser and Ganon go 50-50 with him for a while. It was fun to see Link SFF Ganon into submission and own the bracket. We see what happened when Magus was able to get 35% on Link... Why not give other characters a chance to inflate their status by going up against the best. ;)

Fact: Sonic the Hedgehog will finally make the Final Four this year.

He damn sure deserves it! In a Clinkeroth-less bracket he should make it. Sonic would have been a two-time Final Four character had he been in Mega Man's shoes in 2k3 and 2k4. It's all just really the bracket he is given. He's the only member of the Noble 9 who hasn't been given any freebies. (Well, you can say Crono as he's been shafted before and he earned his way in 2k2 since nobody really knew how strong he would be...)

Fiction: Solid Snake will return to the Final Four this year.

Unless he's given the exact same path as this year. Either of the previous questions can go either way since it's all dependent upon the bracket. This is just the way I'm hopeing it goes.

Fact: Mega Man will make his fourth straight Final Four.

Unless he's really shafted. He's always put in a position where he can get to the Final 4.

Fiction: Sonic will be able to challenge Samus after the release of the new Sonic the Hedgehog.

I don't see the tables turning anytime soon. Since their 2k2 match, Samus has become a major player in the gaming world while Sonic has remained pretty constant. Samus has clearly risen above him. Even if the next-gen Sonic game is a blockbuster, it's not like there's nothing happening for Samus.
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yoblazer33 | Posted 5/5/2006 4:34:57 PM | message detail
Fiction: The Tournament of Champions will return this year.

Fiction: The Tournament of Champions should return this year.

Fiction: Sonic the Hedgehog will finally make the Final Four this year.

Fiction: Solid Snake will return to the Final Four this year.

Fiction: Mega Man will make his fourth straight Final Four.

Fiction: Sonic will be able to challenge Samus after the release of the new Sonic the Hedgehog.
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Kaxon | Posted 5/5/2006 9:28:07 PM | message detail
Fact or Fiction: The Tournament of Champions will return this year.

Fiction. I think (hope) Ceej will notice the Mario dilemma and realize the best solution is to scrap the TOC.

Fact or Fiction: The Tournament of Champions should return this year.

Fiction. Retiring Mario would be lame, and seeing Mario win a second fake title would be even lamer. Plus I like seeing Cloud and Link in regular matches.

Fact or Fiction: Sonic the Hedgehog will finally make the Final Four this year.

Fiction. Of course it depends on bracket placement, but with no TOC there won't be room for him in the final four.

Fact or Fiction: Solid Snake will return to the Final Four this year.

Fiction. If there's no TOC, he needs an extremely favorable bracket placement to make it.

Fact or Fiction: Mega Man will make his fourth straight Final Four.

Probably fiction, sadly.

Fact or Fiction: Sonic will be able to challenge Samus after the release of the new Sonic the Hedgehog.

Fiction. The game would have to somehow be a huge hit, which I don't see happening... it doesn't seem like there's been much hype for Sonic releases since Sonic and Knuckles.
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creativename | Posted 5/5/2006 10:05:12 PM | message detail
Kaxon pretty much got everything. The Mega Man making the Final Four thing is the most iffy - odds are against it but it wouldn't be shocking if we get a couple overloaded divisions with him in another.

Regarding the ToC, it should certainly be scrapped because it's a one-trick pony that wasn't so great anyway, and Mario's "championship" is a joke.

Hmm. Has anyone tossed around the idea of referring to Mario as the "Intercontinental Champion"?
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greatone10 | Posted 5/5/2006 10:14:42 PM | message detail
If Mario is the Intercontinental Champion, Sephiroth is the Cruiserweight Champion.
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swirIdude | Posted 5/5/2006 10:15:26 PM | message detail
What the heck is an Intercontinental Champion?
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therealmnm | Posted 5/5/2006 10:16:51 PM | message detail
What the heck is an Intercontinental Champion?

Don't watch much wrestling huh? So who gets the Hardcore Belt?
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creativename | Posted 5/5/2006 10:17:18 PM | message detail
That doesn't really make any sense; Intercontinental > Cruiserweight. Intercontinental is a midcard belt, whereas Sephiroth is a main event-level jobber.
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greatone10 | Posted 5/5/2006 10:20:12 PM | message detail
Yeah, but only certain people can challenge for the Cruiserweight belt, as can only Villians can challenge for Sephiroth's trophy.
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therealmnm | Posted 5/5/2006 10:21:03 PM | message detail
Does this wrestling undertone mean we're having a TAG-TEAM SUMMER CONTEST COMING UP????
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creativename | Posted 5/5/2006 10:22:45 PM | message detail
Extremely unlikely, but I have to say that I wouldn't be as against it as I would be in past years. In fact the idea could probably grow on me this year.
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Tai | Posted 5/5/2006 10:30:58 PM | message detail
Fact or Fiction: The Tournament of Champions will return this year.

It worked once, and there's no point in denying the Big 3 of what's rightfully there's.

Fiction.

Fact or Fiction: The Tournament of Champions should return this year.

Make a creative idea that left a bracket of villians for Bowser to squash, make the main bracket fight for the right to get the fourth spot in the ToC, comprised of some of the best..Link..Cloud..and..Bowser..but now that's Mario is a champion, can it work? No.

Fiction.

Fact or Fiction: Sonic the Hedgehog will finally make the Final Four this year.

People were questioning whether he can even still be in the N9, despite being able to play his part of the N9 remaining undefeated against non-N9 characters. Or, was it before he did? Ugh. X_x

Anyways, He'd have to be the only N9 in his division to make it happen. Chacnes are, it won't happen if we want a good bracket.

Fiction.

Fact or Fiction: Solid Snake will return to the Final Four this year.

Heh. Here's a better question; will be he given a cupcake division to bully? Or will CJayC actuially give him a bracket to sweat in?

Fiction.

Fact or Fiction: Mega Man will make his fourth straight Final Four.

1st seed or Fiction. If he's not the 1st seed, the guy that is will crush him.

Fact or Fiction: Sonic will be able to challenge Samus after the release of the new Sonic the Hedgehog.

Which one? The one where Shadow is out blowing things up and riding motorcycles, or the game with that new technology where you can surf on roads? O_O Or Sonic Rush, for the DS, which might be easily mistaken for a rehash for people who don't care enough to look?

Wait. Stop. Don't answer. I'll show you a new game.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/portable/ds/data/920760.html

Thanks for playing, Sonic. You're still my favorite hedgehog, but can we play you online? :-(

Fiction.
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voltch | Posted 5/6/2006 7:07:57 AM | message detail
Fact or Fiction:Mario will still be stronger than crono this year?
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Tai | Posted 5/6/2006 7:16:39 AM | message detail
With Mario Kart:DS and Tetris: DS...most likely Fact. :-)
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Applause Sign | Posted 5/6/2006 9:11:06 AM | message detail
I don't understand how so many people can answer fiction to there being a ToC this year, then turn around and say both Sonic and MM will make the Final Four. That pretty much means you don't think Seph/Cloud/Link will make it, and sure that's possible if Seph is in either one of their divisions/neighboring divisions but that still only leaves two spots open.

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LeonhartForever | Posted 5/6/2006 9:19:08 AM | message detail
Well, unless Sonic gets a bracket like Mega Man has gotten in the past. As someone else said, if Sonic had been given Mega Man's path in 2004, he would've made the Final Four that year. If he gets a bracket where he's the 1 and Snake's the 2, then he'd get there. Plus, he MIGHT be able to take Mega Man in a rematch. Who knows?

However, the odds of both making it are impossible unless the ToC returns or Ceej puts two of Clinkeroth in one division, like in 2004.
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Tatsumaki Senpuu | Posted 5/6/2006 9:22:32 AM | message detail
Heh. I kept thinking along how the 2005 bracket was over how the bracket would be with Link/Cloud/Sephiroth. Eh, I always dislike those types of questions without seeing an actual bracket.

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Kaxon | Posted 5/6/2006 10:36:55 AM | message detail
Fact or Fiction:Mario will still be stronger than Crono this year?

Sadly, fact.
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MarioSuperstar | Posted 5/6/2006 10:39:50 AM | message detail
I don't see what's so bad about Mario being stronger than Crono, but that's an if.
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longbladeofhiko | Posted 5/6/2006 10:40:44 AM | message detail
Crono is likely to never regain his proper strength, unfortunately. Mainly cause he wasn't in KH2 <_<
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Tai | Posted 5/6/2006 10:43:48 AM | message detail
In a perfect world, IMO, Crono couldn't touch Mario if his life depended on it. People always talk in this contest about the eyesores of seeing this character beat this one because the losing character is supposedly infallibly better.

Well, there's my eyesore; the fact that Crono could even match Mario.
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therealmnm | Posted 5/6/2006 10:45:00 AM | message detail
Crono is likely to never regain his proper strength, unfortunately. Mainly cause he wasn't in KH2 <_<

Crono doesn't have to "regain" anything. I don't see much difference in his strength from the past years. Mario suddenly becoming more popular has nothing to do with Crono...
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longbladeofhiko | Posted 5/6/2006 10:47:02 AM | message detail
Crono and Mario are two of my favorites. But as a whole, Chrono Trigger is my favorite video game of all time, therefore I prefer it when he wins their bouts. Too bad he'll only have one victory over him now though.
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Mario Cheated | Posted 5/6/2006 11:07:54 AM | message detail
I like Crono better, but I could deal with Mario being more popular... if it weren't for what happened in 2003. After that, the idea of Mario winning just disgusts me.
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23:45 Mario | 65273 (+742) | 49.94% | Crono | 65424 (+598) | 50.06%
24:00 Mario | 66266 (+993) | 50.03% | Crono | 66174 (+750) | 49.97%
MarioSuperstar | Posted 5/6/2006 11:12:58 AM | message detail
I like Mario better, but wouldn't be too upset if Crono won, but yeah, I think it's actually a miracle that Mario's stronger than him.
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Big Bob | Posted 5/6/2006 11:19:57 AM | message detail
Crono didn't necessarily look weaker this year, but look what happened to Magus and Frog. You don't think Crono is next?

And Ulti...why the hell do you hate Sonic?
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Kaxon | Posted 5/6/2006 11:38:43 AM | message detail
I think Crono did look weaker last year. Maybe not a lot, but the gap between him and Mega Man and Sonic was narrower, and he didn't look great against Master Chief. I think it makes more sense to assume Cloud was constant, not Crono.
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HaRRicH | Posted 5/6/2006 11:59:04 AM | message detail
It depends on how you look at Magus to decide whether or not he weakened; he was VERY over-rated from the beginning, you know, and the Devil Division is a different controversy altogether.

Frog weakening is most likely right (even basing Frog off of MC 2k3, he should have done better against Samus assuming she didn't change from 2k4 to 2k5), but it ultimately depends on how much Samus was SFF'd.



I do think Crono'll lose strength sometime soon though (I used to think this year, but there's such a huge influx of Square fans that will be here this year)...just not yet.
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voltch | Posted 5/6/2006 1:22:33 PM | message detail
if say square decided against all the odds to make chrono trigger in 3d for the ps3 would crono be in a guarenteed 4th position of contest power?
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HaRRicH | Posted 5/6/2006 1:32:39 PM | message detail
Guaranteed? Nu-uh...but it'd be interesting. I think releasing CT on the DS or GBA would as much good for Crono as anythign else ever could.
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XIII_rocks | Posted 5/6/2006 1:33:52 PM | message detail
And Ulti...why the hell do you hate Sonic?


He believes they have the most annoying fans in gaming (Probably true; Smurf)
He thinks all Sonic Team have done is release rehashes despite never playing Sonic Adventure 1 and 2.
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Sign my petition! Topic ID: 22242738
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voltch | Posted 5/6/2006 1:36:19 PM | message detail
i just think a big launch of a chrono trigger game,any tbh that could make it mainstream around the world with equal weight to a FF game in terms of popularity would help chrono a lot.
cause to me he is relying too much on older american gamers and DBZ fans.that is apparent in his match with MC that although he has a large portion of the site on his side he is missing a good chunk of potential voters.
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Kilroy:Their fate will be in each other's hands as they decide whether to share or to shaft.
BrentfordFC-championship here we come