Contest Stats and Discussion - Part 1366

I'd take Ultimate over Melee in a direct match, but I'd feel nervous about it. I think Melee has fallen at least a bit since 2015 while Ultimate is a bigger deal than Brawl and SSB4 were at their heights, and due to Brawl beating Melee we know that Melee has trouble with whatever the latest Smash Bros game is. Still, if Melee can pull off another big rally then that's that.

OrangeCrush980 posted...

while Ultimate is a bigger deal than Brawl and SSB4 were at their heights

Relative to Brawl, I doubt that's the case here on GameFAQs, by sheer definition of us being a bunch of 30-year-olds who basically only play single-player games. Brawl certainly looks like the bigger deal at its peak based on the two games' respective GotD performances, and there's no argument to be had about prestige impacting that when both were lacking in it relative to other elites of their fields.

As for the Xenoblade point, I'm inclined to think that the series that played a crucial role in popularizing Xenoblade would have SFF'd the latter in a neutral match - quite like Ultimate > Mario Odyssey and quite unlike Mario > Charizard.

Peak Brawl is Peak Smash Bros. We're never reaching that again.

Xenoblade was probably riding a bandwagon by the time it hit Smash, so that probably helped it resist SFF.

Leonhart4 posted...

Xenoblade was probably riding a bandwagon by the time it hit Smash, so that probably helped it resist SFF.

Yeah, that was my point - that we can take the Smash/Xenoblade match at face value because the latter's bandwagon roughly canceled out the SFF it otherwise would have received.

KamikazePotato posted...

Peak Brawl is Peak Smash Bros. We're never reaching that again.

Agreed.

Never have I seen a game being more extremely hyped in history.

SMB3 and FFVIIR were kind of close, though.

Nah, neither of those games was close to Brawl. Mario 3 was too early in video game history. It was the first game with a major hype campaign though.

And FFVIIR wasn't that big either. Brawl hype was literally sustained for an entire two years because of the DOJO.

The closest things to Brawl might very well be Smash 4 and Ultimate and they're not that close.

FFVIIR had a high peak when that trailer came in 2015 but it didn't exactly keep that going for years.

And there was a lot of skepticism about how good Remake would be and how long it would take to come out.

I'd argue Halo 3 was pretty big in terms of hype, even on GameFAQs.

It essentially vaulted Master Chief well into the mid-noble nine tier. Too bad L-Block covered it up with its run.

Halo 3 was definitely a big deal

GAME FUEL

Halo 3 was a big deal and helped Chief a lot but in 1-on-1 without shenanigans Chief would have only been a near-elite.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/2921-tournament-quarterfinal-master-chief-luigi-pikachu-dante
54.71% on Dante.
He probably does worse without the Nintendo options but not enough for Dante to win or anything. Chief is Chief but it's not like Dante would have been popular among Nintendo fans either.

MetalmindStats posted...

Relative to Brawl, I doubt that's the case here on GameFAQs, by sheer definition of us being a bunch of 30-year-olds who basically only play single-player games. Brawl certainly looks like the bigger deal at its peak based on the two games' respective GotD performances, and there's no argument to be had about prestige impacting that when both were lacking in it relative to other elites of their fields.

Yeah, that's fair. I forgot about all of the DOJO hype + just how hard it is for newer games to do anything on this site.

I think Ultimate still probably beats Melee, even if it takes resorting to rSFF to do so. I think a lot of people would have trouble voting for Melee when Ultimate is objectively the better game, even if they like Melee more regardless.

But Melee has Break the Targets!

I dunno, maybe the hype for Ultimate is dying down? Just a far out guess on my part.

LinkMarioSamus posted...

But Melee has Break the Targets!

I dunno, maybe the hype for Ultimate is dying down? Just a far out guess on my part.

It did about the same in this poll that it did two years ago

OrangeCrush980 posted...

I think a lot of people would have trouble voting for Melee when Ultimate is objectively the better game, even if they like Melee more regardless.

If I were you, I'd be really careful saying this among Smash fans.

The reason Melee remains so strong is because an astounding amount of people think the opposite.

Leonhart4 posted...

It did about the same in this poll that it did two years ago

I was obliquely trying to reference one KingK stream I happened on where he ranted about Ultimate not having some modes from past Smash games.

Didn't Sakurai say Ultimate had to re-use a lot of assets from Smash 4 for such a big game to be remotely completed on time?

LinkMarioSamus posted...

Didn't Sakurai say Ultimate had to re-use a lot of assets from Smash 4 for such a big game to be remotely completed on time?

Smash 4's graphics barely needed any improvement, and it already had a lot of functional material to work with.

Ultimate is basically Smash 4, but bigger and better.

Ultimate is objectively the better game.

Is there literally any reason whatsoever to prefer Smash 4 over Ultimate?

redrocket posted...

Is there literally any reason whatsoever to prefer Smash 4 over Ultimate?

As far as I'm concerned, some people really liked Smash Run and some other gimmicks, and the online is considered better (for what little that's worth). I'd personally add messing around with broken Cloud and Bayo to the list, but I think most people rather forget about it completely.

If that's enough reason to prefer it, though, I don't know.

redrocket posted...

Is there literally any reason whatsoever to prefer Smash 4 over Ultimate?

people that like platforming modes, since smash 4 has smash run on 3ds. some people are also still ass mad about losing trophies, and there's an even smaller sect of pro players that are upset that Smash Ultimate doesn't have useless advanced techs like bidou tech

bayonetta players also predictably prefer smash 4 but they don't count

Is there any reason to prefer Street Fighter II over SFV?

pjbasis posted...

Is there any reason to prefer Street Fighter II over SFV?

nah this is more like you're asking if there's a reason to prefer Super Street Fighter II over Super Turbo

and I guess kinda but there's a reason why the latter is considered a definitive version and the other is not

Smash 4 and Smash Ultimate have different mechanics and feel entirely different to play imo. It's not simply faster.

pjbasis posted...

Smash 4 and Smash Ultimate have different mechanics and feel entirely different to play imo. It's not simply faster.

Super Turbo is also a very different game mechanically from Super, but it's a much closer analog than SF2 to SF5.

Well I was just going extreme to prove a point.

Then again people also acting like you can only like melee for emotional reasons even though it's a completely different beast than future smash games mechanically.

Nah, Melee is definitely the Super Turbo in this equation. Ultimate is more like...Street Fighter IV than Street Fighter V though.

Brawl definitely ain't no SFIII

Nah, it's probably more like Alpha in that every game since has kinda built on it rather than Melee, like how future SF games have built on Alpha more than 2.

I never thought of Alpha like that before. but it makes sense.

I've never grasped the appeal of Street Fighter II in general. No combos, super-slow gameplay, no special moves...

Granted, I was pretty confused about which version was the best one, so it wasn't until just a few years ago that I tried Super Street Fighter II and it was sort of decent (thought for a long time that Turbo was supposed to be better than Super). Haven't played Super Street Fighter II Turbo, though, which I suppose it's the definitive edition.

I also grew up with Marvel vs. Street Fighter and Marvel vs. Capcom, so the difference is enormous.

Street Fighter III is where it's at for classic, 2D fighting games, though. It has the perfect balance of fast gameplay, demanding skill, and varied movepools.

Generally speaking Turbo and Super Turbo are considered the best versions of SF2

So what are the chances we ever get another contest with the new ownership?

I hadn't even known there was new ownership until you said that and I looked things up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CNET
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Ventures

For the last several years we've gotten a contest once every ~18 months, so we won't be able to tell until around the end of this year.

After they did something to cause the majority of the original Giant Bomb crew to leave after the acquisition, I don't have faith that these Red Vulture assclowns have any idea what they're doing

Hey, hey, relax, BT.

We're barely shifting to a brand new staff here and you're already attacking them? Let's give them the benefit of the doubt.

Totally tracking today's poll because it is known for having strong trends in previous re-runs.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/8449-

Apparently, there was a recent change to the polls in which you cannot see the poll graphs on any poll that is still in progress. It is only after the poll ends that the poll graph data becomes public and the graphs can be viewed. This seems like a weird change to make, though I guess it could be used during a contest to potentially see whether someone's attempt to cheat a contest poll is actually working.

I will interpret this as SBAllen getting ready for a contest

abdou posted...

I will interpret this as SBAllen getting ready for a contest

Although weirdly enough, we've still got about 30 minutes left in today's poll and I see the poll graphs are already visible. So what I reported in my previous post was either unintended, or the poll graph data goes public after the poll reaches a specific number of votes (maybe like 10000 or so) or after running for a certain amount of time first.

Looks like that poll graph thing was unintended after all, since today's poll already has the poll graph data public as soon as the poll got enough votes to begin showing Geolocation results.

So how strong do you think Lady Dimitrescu will be in the next CB?

9.6% on Link

Mac Arrowny posted...

9.6% on Link

Link doesn't count anymore. He's ascended SS-Tier status.

Link is always the standard.

(and he's not as far above the rest of the field as he used to be, honestly; he's just separated himself from the rest of the Noble Nine)

Yeah, Link is weaker than he used to be. It's just that he used to have competition in Cloud and Sephiroth, and those two have fallen off a cliff compared to their glory days.

2010 - 2013 (presumably until BotW came out really) Link was pretty feeble by Link standards, yeah, but 60/40ing a Cloud on par with Mario like he did in 2018 seems about what peak Link is supposed to do.

AxemRedRanger posted...

2010 - 2013 (presumably until BotW came out really) Link was pretty feeble by Link standards, yeah, but 60/40ing a Cloud on par with Mario like he did in 2018 seems about what peak Link is supposed to do.

In 2018, 82 characters were worth 20%+ on Link, and that's without even adjusting for SFF at all. 21 were worth 30% or more.

In 2004, 37 characters were worth 20%+ on Link. Only 12 were worth 30% or more.

So yeah, while Link is stronger relative to the Noble Nine (although it's mainly relative to Cloud and Seph. He's almost always been able to put up 60%+ on any other Noble Niner, even if there's SFF involved), he's weaker relative to the rest of the field. He definitely gets anti-voted because he "always wins" like Cloud and Seph used to now.