Contest Stats and Discussion - Part 1381

The turning point of the series was 11. X was the last of the golden age, and what a fantastic game it was.

But there is not one single gaming company or publisher that doesn't IMMEDIATELY get worse the second they make an mmorpg. Happened to Square, happened to Blizzard, happened to Amazon with their embarrassing attempt, happened to Bethesda, it's somewhat happening to Rockstar with GTA Online, happened to Gearbox, etc etc etc, and I'm positive Nintendo knows this which is why I hope we never get one for Pokemon. If your favorite publisher announces an MMORPG or some live service slop, watch out.

UltimaterializerX posted...

The turning point of the series was 11.

Nah, nobody cares about it enough for that to be the case

Everyone who skipped it for being an MMO just locked in on XII, which probably also contributed to why it's viewed as a disappointment

Where do you think 12 got the mmo gameplay and storytelling from, not to mention its own version of "oh crap the test audience hates it better fire the director and do reshoots".

I mean the director had a complete breakdown, but still.

I think XII was just Square-Enix's attempt to make a action-RPG/Final Fantasy hybrid.

Of course, the main problem with XII's gameplay is that all of the things that were needed for the player to make that fun were locked until late in the game, instead of early when you really needed it.

UltimaterializerX posted...

Where do you think 12 got the mmo gameplay and storytelling from, not to mention its own version of "oh crap the test audience hates it better fire the director and do reshoots".

Again, nobody cares that it started with XI because most people skipped it

Still no Got Switch 2 poll.

Well, we've gotta know who wears sunglasses

Vasn did get to feature in one if the highest vote total matches ever, he can take that with him.

Leonhart4 posted...

Again, nobody cares that it started with XI because most people skipped it

sounds like a turning point to me! But yeah I guess the MMOs are invisible to most fans. Can't say something is bad from the bottom of your heart if you didn't play it.

To some degree but XI didn't really hurt the brand. It felt more like they just skipped that number to many fans.

Wasn’t XI pretty successful too?

it just wasn’t anywhere on the same scale as WoW but like, it had a decent number of subs at its peak

pjbasis posted...

sounds like a turning point to me! But yeah I guess the MMOs are invisible to most fans. Can't say something is bad from the bottom of your heart if you didn't play it.

It can be an internal turning point for the series, but in terms of fan perception, it started with XII. I remember thinking XI was just an experiment and it was unfortunate I'd have to skip it, but then I immediately began looking forward to XII.

ctesjbuvf posted...

To some degree but XI didn't really hurt the brand. It felt more like they just skipped that number to many fans.

This is sort of what it felt like to me. FF11 was more of a "not for me, but other people may like it" rather than being considered a bad game.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/2023-which-of-the-next-gen-consoles-are-you-most-likely-to-buy

This was back before it was even known as the Wii!

This is the last generation where the console wars felt like a real thing.

Doing tazzy's ranking topics has be missing the times where there were plenty of exclusives on all consoles lol, even if it's probably nicer this way.

Oh hey, there's the Switch 2 poll

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/9942-got-switch-2

It's happening!

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/6626-got-switch

For comparison.

Too expensive option please.

that's the difference between having DK and Mario Kart as your launch games, and having a Zelda launch game that is still releasing on the old system too.

Here probably. Mario Kart is huge though.

DK isn't for another month.

I think this is also the difference between "the Switch is still a perfectly viable option" and "please move on from the Wii U"

I'd suggest the impact of making an MMO / live service isn't even so much about how the game is received as that:

1. The amount of resource needed to make and sustain an ongoing game is massively higher than what most developers realise going in. If a developer is accustomed to 1 - 3 year projects with fairly small tightly-led teams with clear end points the experience of a project requiring permanent support (including art, systems, PR, customer service etc.) is a big culture shock that permanently changes the business and its culture. You end up with lots of people working on the same game for 10 years.
2. The revenue can be very substantial and ongoing stream, so maintaining and maximising it becomes the dominant focus of the business (and how you extract the maximum money from whales is very different from how you sell lots of copies of a game at a given price point). This influences how executives and shareholders see the business forever.

Edit: As it happens I'm playing FFXII: The Zodiac Age right now - first time I've touched the game since a few months after its release. I've warmed up to it a lot! The biggest single change is the 2x/4x speed - honestly it doesn't even feel all that fast with the modifier on, which gives a sense of how ridiculously slow the original was (factoring in loading times being much reduced). There's some good lines and characters (including some nice facial animation in the cutscenes - small touch but adds quite a lot), the setting and world exploration is excellent.* Still does feel far too sparse in terms of party interactions and plot (the stretch from Raithwall to Archades is 10+ hours, assuming you do at least some side questing, with one significant set of scenes) - Vaan + Penelo are almost comical in how they are brought along for the ride. I think it would probably have worked better with Ashe as the narrator and protagonist. And far too much "this chest has a 10% chance to spawn" nonsense - some luck-based farming / grinding is fine, but this game takes it way too far.

*Really does remind me why many were so disappointed with FFXIII's environments being corridors for 80% of the game. How did they go from this to that?!

I don't think XII does exploration very well at all. You have huge environments with nothing worth finding in them. Even late in the game, you're still finding Potions and 256 Gil in treasure chests.

Oh yeah and your reward for thoroughly exploring is that you can't get the strongest weapon in the game

I can see that. I've certainly benefited from using guides to let me look up what's worth hunting in places like Zertinan Caverns and Necrohol of Nabudis, but it's managed to tempt me into going way off the beaten path to hunt for things and explore, which means it's doing something right. Clearly it could be improved a lot with less reliance on RNG / rare steals and weird monster spawn conditions etc.

I do still have the final areas left to do which I remember being quite frustrating and confusing, so perhaps that will bring me down on it again.

Leonhart4 posted...

I don't think XII does exploration very well at all. You have huge environments with nothing worth finding in them. Even late in the game, you're still finding Potions and 256 Gil in treasure chests.

Oh yeah and your reward for thoroughly exploring is that you can't get the strongest weapon in the game

The Zodiac Spear is one of the most blatant “buy the strategy guide” scams I have ever seen.

I remember watching a video on how to obtain it and thinking wtf.

Leonhart4 posted...

I don't think XII does exploration very well at all. You have huge environments with nothing worth finding in them. Even late in the game, you're still finding Potions and 256 Gil in treasure chests.

And yet everyone here gushes over Xenoblade Chronicles! That game was AWFUL with enormous f***ing environments.

Eh, Xenoblade was too big for its own good sometimes (I definitely felt fatigued by the end of my playthrough), but it had the decency not to waste my time by allowing me to find what I needed quickly with mission markers, as well as actually putting things worth finding out there at times.

I think people probably just think Xenoblade has a way better story. I gave up on FFXII halfway through because I cared so little about what was happening.

I never got a chance to play Xenoblade though I’ve heard overall really good things.

I picked up Definitive Edition since I was unemployed through COVID and it felt right after Xenoblade did me right in GotD. Never really got much into the post-game or the sidequests because the game felt a bit on the huge side, but the main plot is so good. Didn't feel I needed another two games though.

Still about a month away from our SC2K5 retrospective. I'll probably try to do some previews in the lead up as we get closer.

Also when did we stop referring to it as SC2K and start referring to it as CB? Was in 2007 when it wasn't actually a summer contest?

It was probably after this contest at some point. The fact that Spring and Summer have the same first initial kind of makes it useless as an acronym when there's two contests in the same year anyway.

Also, the Contests site is down again for bandwidth issues, so hopefully that gets resolves soon.

Maybe, but I think we went with Sp2K5 and Sp2K6 for Villains and Series

This poll was run 20 years ago and only 2.64% of the site said they had never played any version of Tetris

Curious to see if the number is close to that again

Leonhart4 posted...

~*creativename's contest site*~
http://www.gamefaqscontests.com/drupal/

~*All the Match Pics*~
http://www.gamefaqscontests.com/gallery/index.php

I just want to point out that neither of these links work anymore. Don't know how long that's been the case, but it might be good to get rid of them in the opening post of the next topic.

Fortunately, all of the other links still work fine!

They've been going in and out of commission for a little while now. Hopefully they'll start working again soon.

Only 1.8% of the site has never played Tetris in any form. We almost had as many people vote for the last option of 100 or more.

Time for a Tactics ownership poll

Almost a 50/50 split!

Looking at the Stats Topic Archives, nominations started on June 18th, and we got the bracket on the 28th. Quick turnaround! From what I can tell, it was not initially announced that Link, Cloud, and Sephiroth would be removed from the main bracket. I'd say I feel bad for the people who wasted their nominations on them, but come on, those are boring nominations!

Oh hey, today was bracket day. I will look through the Stats Topic archives and post (anonymously) early initial reactions to the bracket. I might do a division by division breakdown of what our expectations were as we lead up to the start of SC2K5.

"8 Divisions = Wonderful Idea, looks lik Ceej liked the format of the Spring Contest, and decided to make a bracket of 64 with it. Also, a seperate bracket with the Champs is acceptable. Now let's look at the divisions seperately.

Mushroom Division
(1) Mario
(8) Joanna Dark

(4) Ness
(5) Carl Johnson

(3) Zero
(6) Ryu Hayabusa

(2) Lloyd Irving
(7) Albert Wesker

Johanna made it in? Impressive. Ness vs. Carl is going to be an EXCELLENT early bracket buster. Casual vs. Cult right there. Lloyd also surprises me a bit by scoring a 2 seed. It will be interesting to see if he is stronger than Zero though.

Zebes Division

(1) Samus
(8) Yuri

(4) Riku
(5) Frog

(3) Ganondorf
(6) Yuna

(2) Auron
(7) Big Boss

3 words. Ganondorf versus Auron! This match is looking to be big right there. We saw Ganondorf slip by Tidus, and with all the Auron/Tidus arguments, it will be interesting to see how this goes. I would have liked it more if Frog was in the bottom half of the division along with Ganon and Auron, but meh.

Gear Division

(1) Solid Snake
(8) Manny Calavera

(4) Vivi
(5) Zelda

(3) Kratos (God of War)
(6) Alucard

(2) Sora
(7) Agent 47

WTF @ Agent 47?!?!? I think we have our Adventure/Tanner of the Contest. In better news, Manny made it in! Inviso did it with PH and now Shake does it with Manny! Zelda also returns and has a huge Round 1 match with Vivi. Kratos vs. Alucard is also looking like a sexy upset pick.

Star Division

(1) Kirby
(8) Cecil

(4) Tidus
(5) King of all Cosmos

(3) Bowser
(6) Chun Li

(2) Ryu (Street Fighter)
(7) Rikku

Kirby as a 1 seed is AWESOME to see! Tidus is looking to take him down early though in Round 2. Bowser vs. Ryu should also be a great match, as these two are close in strength.

Flood Division

(1) Master Chief
(8) CATS

(4) Donkey Kong
(5) Sam Fisher

(3) Kefka
(6) Tommy Vercetti

(2) Crono
(7) Zidane

Chief gets his own division, and goes up against CATS in Round 1. Ouch. DK vs. Fisher could be good, and Kefka vs. Vercetti is another nice match for the casuals. The possibility of a Crono vs. Kefka 2 though is a rematch we need not to see.

Devil Division

(1) Dante
(8) Terra

(4) Sara Kerrigan
(5) Vincent Valentine

(3) Magus
(6) Knuckles the Echidna

(2) Squall Leonhart
(7) Geno

Wow, it's a nice looking division on paper. Dante is another surprise 1 seed (along with Kirby). He gets Terra, who got in from massive board support. Kerrigan/Vincent is looking to be THE match of Round 1. Magus vs. Knuckles should also be good. And Geno makes it in finally, only to be owned by Squall. Round 2 will also be brutal in this division of mid-carders.

Chaos Division

(1) Sonic the Hedgehog
(8) Jin Kazama

(4) Kratos Aurion
(5) Diablo

(3) Tifa Lockheart
(6) Vyse

(2) Luigi
(7) KOS-MOS

Who the hell is Jin? Oh well. Kratos vs. Diablo is looking to be sweet. Tifa gets in and faces Vyse in Round 1, and once she wins, she gets either Luigi or KOS-MOS.

20XX Division

(1) Mega Man
(8) Conker

(4) Gordon Freeman
(5) Leon Kennedy

(3) Yoshi
(6) Laharl

(2) Revolver Ocelot
(7) Pac-Man

Freeman/Kennedy?! Will GFNW continue, or will Leon be the first to fall to Freeman? Yoshi/Ocelot in Round 2 also looks nice.

In conclusion, this is the best looking bracket we have had yet. It's looking to be quite the unpredictible and great Contest."

"Tidus/ Kirby was destined to be. Kirby is my 3rd favorite character, and now he will have faced my #1 (Squall Leonhart), #2 (Tidus), and #4 (Ramza Beoulve) characters. Expect him to face Luigi next year."

okay hard to deny this is me

but did I call it or what

LeonhartFour posted...

Kirby as a 1 seed is AWESOME to see!

I got to admit, I like Kirby too, however the users were too obsessed with him at that time.

"My thoughts

Mushroom Division

(1) Mario
(8) Joanna Dark
(4) Ness
(5) Carl Johnson
(3) Zero
(6) Ryu Hayabusa
(2) Lloyd Irving
(7) Albert Wesker

Nice to see Mario at the top of the bracket. Ness/CJ may cause a few brackets to fall near the beginning. Also how did Lloyd Irving get such a high seed. If it wasn't for Wesker doing so bad in the villians contest I might've put Wesker over him.

Zebes Division

(1) Samus
(8) Yuri
(4) Riku
(5) Frog
(3) Ganondorf
(6) Yuna
(2) Auron
(7) Big Boss

Frog's in the contest again to prove his strength, but too bad CJayC didn't put him in the bottom half of the division, that would be killer. Ganondorf/Auron in round 2 shall end all of the Auron vs. Tidus argument unless Auron keeps this close.

Gear Division

(1) Solid Snake
(8) Manny Calavera
(4) Vivi
(5) Zelda
(3) Kratos (God of War)
(6) Alucard
(2) Sora
(7) Agent 47

Vivi/ Zelda shall be a hard first match, both doing very well in the year that they were in. Kratos from GoW may cause trouble, but since Alucard is pretty high up, I don't think he'll be breaking many brackets. Sora/Alucard may be a difficult match as well.

Dream Division

(1) Kirby
(8) Cecil
(4) Tidus
(5) King of all Cosmos
(3) Bowser
(6) Chun Li
(2) Ryu (Street Fighter)
(7) Rikku

How did Kirby get a 1 seed? Well too bad he won't get past round 2. With no Noble 9 characters in this division, the winner of this division has become up in the air between Tidus, Bowser and Ryu from Street Fighter.

Flood Division

(1) Master Chief
(8) CATS
(4) Donkey Kong
(5) Sam Fisher
(3) Kefka
(6) Tommy Vercetti
(2) Crono
(7) Zidane

Crono continues his tradition of moving up one seed every year and Master Chief gain the 1 seed only because of the huge success of Halo 2. Kefka/Tommy Vercetti could be tough. TV may have been ahead of him in 2k4, but with San Andreas could the fans have forgotten him? Probably not since he is in this contest.

Devil Division

(1) Dante
(8) Terra
(4) Sarah Kerrigan
(5) Vincent Valentine
(3) Magus
(6) Knuckles the Echidna
(2) Squall Leonhart
(7) Geno

Another non-noble 9 division, too bad Magus is in this division to screw everything up. The board 8 fan favorite match is in this division, Kerrigan vs. Vincent is already getting a lot of hype, but some of the users have declared this match a dud. Dante/Vincent can also be hard, but again the board has been hyping about Vincent so we'll see.

Chaos Division

(1) Sonic the Hedgehog
(8) Jin Kazama
(4) Kratos Aurion
(5) Diablo
(3) Tifa Lockheart
(6) Vyse
(2) Luigi
(7) KOS-MOS

Another ToS character in this contest, boy board 8 did a good job, too bad I don't see much strength in them. Many people may put Luigi as the winner of his first round match, but don't forget that KOS-MOS is one place below Luigi. Tifa has replaced Aeris, who again isn't in this contest, she'll probably have a great match against the winner of Luigi/KOS-MOS

20XX Division

(1) Mega Man
(8) Conker
(4) Gordon Freeman
(5) Leon Kennedy
(3) Yoshi
(6) Laharl
(2) Revolver Ocelot
(7) Pac-Man

Gordon continues his GFNW lagacy against a match against Leon. Again like all of his other matches, he does have a chance to win, but most people don't see this coming. How did Laharl return to this thing, I can name plenty of characters that deserve to be in this contest more then Laharl."

20 Years ago we thought Tidus could reach round 3.

That's a Devil division alright.

I'll never forget RPGuy getting only one match right in the Devil Division and it was Squall > Geno

I was about to say it was hard to imagine that people really believed Terra could beat Dante

But maybe now we'd believe it again...!

MegaWentEvil posted...

I got to admit, I like Kirby too, however the users were too obsessed with him at that time.

I'm pretty sure Kirby upsetting Sonic was when the board's hype was maxed out.